Cichlids Australia

The Forum FAQ

The following text transcripts are reproduced with kind permission from the ACE Forums. All information provided here is exclusive to the ACE website and may not be not be reproduced without the written of the webmaster of ACE Forums or the original author.

Explanation of symbols:

This refers to the original question posted on the forums.

This refers to the original answers posted on the forums

This symbol refers to additional information or dialogue on this issue.

Cheap Biological filter materials

Index

Posted by Tim
Biological Filter Material

Hi Guy's just after any suggestions for filter media?? i need it to fill quite a large volume and also for it not to be too fine so as it clogs up, i need it to fill 2 x250 L barrels, i was thinking the plastic Orange Onion bags would be a good idea but i don't know where you would find a large amount of these?? any other ideas??

Tim

Posted by Matt
Biological Filter Material

Fishing Line isn't bad as it has lots of surface area when you whack a stack of it in there, it doesn't clog and since the actual quality or strength of the line doesn't matter as its only the surface area you're after just get a cheap line and it shouldn't cost you much. Think about it, you can buy a big roll of 500metres or so for pretty cheap and 500 metres is a fair bit of surface area and you can really pack it in to quite a small space.

Matt

Posted by Tim
Biological Filter Material

i would need a lot of fishing line to fill 2X250 L drums, it's a good idea for smaller filters though oh k Andy i know the stuff you mean now, it wasn't what i was thinking but it might do, if it's cheap, i was actually thinking of the big onion bags , like what you see at the markets not at the supermarkets, i was also thinking fly screen would be good, or even shade cloth??

Tim

Posted by Robert
Biological Filter Material

Ah my speciality! Shade cloth is uv treated so i would have to say that it would be toxic to fish. It has to be treated to last in the sun. As for fly screen, i don't know.

Posted by Tim
Biological Filter Material

On the shade cloth i have used it many times, mainly as covers for filters and stuff like that but never had any problems, i actually ended up going with Shade cloth and made some shade cloth balls, kinda like big bio balls, i think they will work great, i never really thought of it being toxic mainly cause i have used it before, are you positive that it's toxic?? or just assuming??

Tim

Posted by Mark
Biological Filter Material

I have used shade cloth inside my box filters for some time now, without any problems, permanently submerged, mainly to keep the bio balls in order and to stop them from floating to the top.

Mark

Posted by Tim
Biological Filter Material

The stuff (shade cloth) i have is low UV, but i thought the UV rating would be gauged on how fine the cloth is so low UV big holes, the stuff i used as a cover for the filter actually went in the tank/pond and was under the water, anything that went through the pump had to go through the shade cloth, and that stuff was high UV, it was to stop fry going into the pump.

what about Styrofoam packing?? i herd it was really good as it has lots of holes all through it, but do you guy's think it would break down at all?? i have access to a lot of this so it makes sense.... anyone used it before??

Tim

Posted by Mick
Biological Filter Material

G'day Tim,
from what I have heard Styrofoam is OK, it won't break down but it has been known to get waterlogged

Mick

(Editors note: The issue of whether shade cloth was toxic seems to be a little unclear... I have used 90% shade cloth in a few DIY filters with no problems... some shade clothes may be toxic though. )

---

Cichlid hybrids and line bred species "morphs"

Index

Posted by YeW
Hybridisation/Line breeding issues.

Hi All,

I am wondering why the OB peacock and the 'Neon' Hemichromis seem to be much more widely excepted by cichlid keepers than the red blood parrot... I realise that the red blood parrot is quite badly deformed etc. etc. However, it seems to be the other two hybrid cichlids pose a greater and more insidious risk to the hobby... After all, it is difficult to imagine when a red blood parrot could accidentally be hybridised back into pure central or south american cichlid lines...it is very possible that a well meaning breeder could accidentally mistake Hemichromis sp. 'Neon' for a good coloured or possibly line bred lifalili or cristatus...

I would really like to include some discussion of this topic in the forum FAQ and I would love to hear what others think of these issues.

Cheers,
YeW

Posted by Bill
Hybridisation/Line breeding issues.

It is beyond my comprehension as to why some hybrids are acceptable to certain parts of the hobby. It has reached such dangerous levels in Melbourne that a couple of LFS are claiming that the "neon" hemichromis is a true species described by some French scientists (how far will people go). I tested this theory on a couple of scientific mailing lists that I belong to...naive me to even consider it a true story.

The ACA has a fairly straightforward policy on the subject of hybrids - any hybrid is not welcome in the hobby. The latest BB that I got the other day has another article on hybrids. I believe that I could legally scan the article onto here if you like - or could just send you the article if you wish.

Though not a cichlid, the latest "mutant/hybrid/?" I saw yesterday was the short pink gourami - in my view makes the blood parrot look respectable. And why does the LFS keep it - because people want it...

Posted by Magica diSpell
Hybridisation/Line breeding issues.

...The OB peacock or blood parrot (and I guess I had better add the Neon Jewel to that list) I believe hybrids are undesirable. I guess the Blood Parrot is worse by some degrees because of the deformities that don't seem to occur in the OB peacock for example. So besides the hybrid issue there is also a humanity/animal lover issue.

If we are serious about cichlid breeding and keeping, then I believe we should also see ourselves a little as Noah's Arc. Some, if not most of these species are strongly under threat due to destruction of their habitat. If that habitat should ever be able to be restored, our cichlids might contribute to the restocking (I know this sounds like a farfetched scenario, but there is nothing like a contingency plan, is there!). So, therefore I also strongly believe we should look after the genetic health of our fish.

To sum it all up, hybrids are out - IMHO!

Posted by CID
Hybridisation/Line breeding issues.

with Blood Parrots it is more the experiment gone wrong disfigurement that has been thrust on them than the fact they are hybrids the OB Peacocks are the same deal but at least they retain the shape of the type species they imitate the Neon Jewels are the same Genera if different species - They Are All Aquarium Industry Products !!!! - No sales means no market means no experimental fish ... BUT how do you factor out the new people that only see a fish as a fish ????????? The standard rule appears to be "Make it coloured or bent or both and it will sell!" Discus keepers have been doing it for years and its considered the normal practice .... so who's right ??? Maybe it comes down to conservationist V capitalist... So lets keep it civil and see what we get!

Chris D

Posted by Luke
Hybridisation/Line breeding issues.

excuse my ignorance but what's is meant by line bred , is it the same as man made ?...

Posted by Tim
Hybridisation/Line breeding issues.

it means it has come from an original species but has fish have been chosen to breed from because of there colour, so say for Eureka Red's they breed Jacob's pick the ones with the best red colour, breed them and pick the best with the red colour out of that batch, until the red increases and you have a fish that has a different colour or markings, this is the way i understand it anyway

Tim

Posted by Simon
Hybridisation/Line breeding issues.

On convicts... Line breeding depends first on deciding what 'improvements' you want to make and sticking to that goal ruthlessly. My goal was to increase colour and improve form of both males and females ( you can also breed out the deformities that plague our LFSs these days with careful line breeding or selective breeding and culling ). It involves breeding individuals that you think will help you achieve that goal and can involve inbreeding and outbreeding ( as opposed to cross breeding which means interspecific breeding which is to be discouraged by all except Tyler ! ( sorry - in joke ) lol ). First you must understand the difference between inheritable characteristics and environmentally influenced characteristics. Colour can be largely influenced by the environment that an organism lives in- e.g. nutrition, disease, competition, water chemistry, dominance etc. One thing that people would commonly make the mistake of assuming is that, in the case of the convicts, that if they used a good coloured female to start their breeding program then they will get good coloured females in successive generations. It will probably help but the pics I put up clearly show that the female I have now is by far better than the starting female. This, IMO, is because of the male I had. The male ALSO contains genetic information that will affect the look of the females too. At a chromosomal level the only thing that makes a male convict ( or us for that matter ) a male is the presence of a Y chromosome. Genes that affect the expression of gender type characteristics are influenced by the genes that are found around them. If the individual contains a Y chromosome then they will be expressed in a different way than if they had two X chromosomes. They are still the SAME GENES but because of the presence of either XY ( male ) genes or XX ( female ) genes they will be expressed differently. So the male also contained genes that would have contributed to improving the females colour. Successive males have also shown a lot more colour and have developed small spots like eggspots on their anal fins with a beautiful green sheen. You can breed siblings together for a few generations without too much trouble. Deformations are NOT caused by crossing related individuals - it only increases the probability of a recessive characteristics appearing- so if serious culling takes place then it is not a problem because the deleterious recessive gene is effectively being removed from the genepool. It is in fact necessary once you reach your standard to 'fix' a line. Outcrossing is a method in which you source new blood periodically in and attempt to broaden the gene pool by introducing new genes. This could be a catch 22 situation as you may also bring in new recessive genes but again if careful culling goes on the overall effect is generally positive. This has the effect of boosting the vigour of a line too. In breeding circles this effect is called hybrid vigour and is a widely used method in lots of animals such as cattle whereby different breeds o

---

Fish Hyperventilating - Oodinium (Velvet)

Index

Posted by LAKA
Fish Hyperventilating

I have a 450l brackish tank with 3 large sliver scats and a mangrove jack. Once a week i feed the jack gold fish. Two days after his last feed he began laboured breathing. I tested all water parameters with different test kits and all water quality checks out OK.

NH3-0ppm,NO2-0ppm,NO3-20ppm,temp 25 degrees celsius,Cu-0ppm,specific gravity1.005.There is a large air pump and the outlet of the canister filter is above water level to provide max. water agitation.

I suspected gill ectoparasites and raised marine salt content to 1.010 .Sunday morning the jack died. It's mouth and opercula were wide open. It died from O2 deprivation but source unknown. There were no other symptoms. The pectoral fins were clamped with mild flashing. No physical changes to scales.

The only other residents-3 silver scats are now hyperventilating and just below water level. Treated with 3ppm praziquantel Sunday.24hrs later still heavy breathing. Running out of time and ideas. Beginning to suspect not a parasitic infection but bacterial?? Will treat tonight with 7mg/l metronidazole. Any suggestions much appreciated.

Posted by AndrewP
Fish Hyperventilating

I had a similar thing happen when I had my marine tank. I fed my marines some feeder mosquito fish (like guppies) over the next fortnight I had the exact symptoms you describe. My fish died one by one with gills opened etc. They also swam in front of the outlet. Go to your LFS and get something that kills flukes/ich/other parasites. There are so many medicines for these things I wont recommend any as I don't know the exact problem. If you have another death get a magnifying glass and examine the gills. You may be able to see some white round disks/ovals/ or worms. I worked in an aquarium shop for a number of years and the amount of parasites we used to get in on the gold fish was unreal (I'm not saying the ones you bought had parasites as I am only guessing but it seems strange), Live food is excellent but remember that you run the same risks putting live feeder fish into your tank as you do putting a new display fish in, in my experience the feeder goldfish are put in the crappy tanks and looked after the least, this may not be the case with your ones you bought but I have had the first hand experience. Frankly I would never for any reason put a feeder gold fish in the same tank water as my cichlids.

Posted by LAKA
Fish Hyperventilating

That's exactly what my scats are doing. They're right next to the filter outlet. There are just so many parasites that without positive identification i am just using a shot gun approach. Praziquantel for flukes, metronidazole for protozoal infections and columnaris disease and tomorrow erythromycin for other possible bacterial bugs. I am not a subscriber to polypharmacy but these scats are on death row.

And you're right live feeders are just not worth it unless you breed them yourself.

Posted by LAKA
Fish Hyperventilating

My silver scats have Oodinium. Only today they have developed a thick velvety appearance all over their scales. It all makes sense now. Typically there is very heavy breathing for a few days, followed by a skin outbreak. Apparently labyrinth fish and cyprinids are excellent hosts to this parasite even in this dormant state. The feeders were the host that introduced it to my tank.

Am treating with copper sulphate and acriflavine. Hope it's not too late.

Posted by YeW
On feeders...

Hi LAKA,

I concur with most of the other posts and your own assumptions (continue to use that shotgun and cross your fingers)...
Hopefully others will read your post and conclude as you have that feeders are not a good idea and not worth the risk to your prize fish (unless you breed them yourself). Gambusia can be readily bred in a outdoor pond and are generally quite "clean" two or three generations from collected stock...

Good luck,
YeW

Posted by LAKA
Fish Hyperventilating - Epilogue

I finally diagnosed what the scats and the late mangrove jack were infected with and with the appropriate medication all the scats are returning to health. On the third day of heavy breathing i noticed that one of the scats experienced a skin outbreak. It's as if it was rolled in icing sugar-but it was hard to pick and you had to view the fish from a specific angle, ie. velvet disease. The offending micro organism i am unsure. In fresh water it's Oodinium, in sea water it's Amyloodinium and my water has a SG of 1.010. Irrespective of the species involved treatment is the same. I dosed the water with Ichonex that contains CuSO4 and malachite green, and Wardley's Fungus AIDE that contains formaldehyde and acriflavine among others.
Within 24hrs the hyperventilation reduced dramatically but it took another 3 days for the white plaque to disappear from the skin. The pectoral fins are no longer clamped to the bodies and they are no longer hiding in a corner and they have got their appetite back.
I will be treating the tank for 14 days to ensure full eradication of the parasite. I raised tank temp. from 25 to 29 degrees Celsius and at the same time did a 50% water change which reduced the salinity from 1.010 to 1.005.Apparently hypo salinity causes an osmotic imbalance in the Oodinium cyst resulting in rupture of the cell lining and death. The biological filtration has not been affected with all the above medicine. One untoward side effect is the silicone lining in my tank has gone blue all over. I hope this doesn't lead to problems down the track.
Typical symptoms of ectoparasitic infestation include hyperventilation, clamped pectoral fins, "private parties" in the corner of a tank, loss of appetite and sudden jerky mouth movements as if the fish is eating. Visible presence on the skin follows but quite often the fish will already be dead-as was my jack. Apparently labyrinth fish and cyprinids are excellent vectors (hosts) for parasite transmission which probably explains my route of entry into the tank.

So what lessons have i learned?
prevention is better than cure. Always quarantine new additions, irrespective of whether they are feeder or new inhabitants.
where possible avoid feeders, it's just not worth it. If they are unavoidable then a 2-10 minute saltwater bath in 2.5-3% salt under heavy aeration will eliminate any ectoparasite from the skin.
early diagnosis is critical. I have decided to invest in a microscope. A gill Bx. of the jack may have meant he may still be around today.

---

Floating aquarium/pond plants and their noxious status

Index

Posted by Richard
Floating plants

supposedly these (floating plants) are illegal to sell here in Sydney, could anyone "lend" me some, or enlighten me on this topic?

- Thanks in Advance
Richard

Posted by YeW
Floating plants

Sadly this is true, it is a NSW government piece of legislation to prevent water hyacinth/salvina/duckweed and similar species from ending up in the water ways. Sadly it is irresponsible pond keepers/hobbyists who are responsible for this law - the same applies for the reduced number of ornamental fish species that are legal to import.

You can readily obtain water/hyacinth/duckweed from naturally occurring "stocks" around Sydney. Riccia is available at some aquariums who order their plants from interstate sources.

Hope this helps,
YeW

Posted by Magica diSpell
Floating plants

Water hyacinth grows quite tall and is not really suitable for aquariums, it is illegal to keep besides. I used to find it around Sackville (on the Hawkesbury) a few years ago. If you do decide to get some and later decide you don't like it, make sure you destroy it (dry it out completely before throwing it inot the garbage bin) it really is a very nasty weed. So nasty it has taken over something 1/3 of Lake Victoria and is not yet kept in check. So, I hope this turned you off this plant completely.

Valisneria is quite cheap to buy in shops and we probably shouldn't collect it from the rivers. First, from a fish keeper's point of view, you can introduce disease into your tank, and second, if everyone did that, these plants would soon get onto the endangered species list, like so many of their land-dwelling relatives.

Duckweed is great with South Americans, they love to eat it, and I find it doesn't grow fast enough to keep up with them, so I grow it in a tank of Tropheus, that don't seem to like to eat it very much and transfer some every now and then.

Other really nice surface plants are Banana Lillies, Lotus Lillies, and Pennywort.

Hope this helps
Magica diSpell

---

Fluffy "fungus" on driftwood

Index

Posted by URNEW2ME
driftwood fungus??? Posted 7-5-2001

i have some driftwood in my tank and for months had no dramas.....but it got some kind of fungus on it over a few day period so i scrubbed it off and let the wood dry out before putting it back in ...... it has grown back in a few day as bad as it was...????? any ideas??? its really white fluffy stuff and seems to be worse in the shade ??????? fish seem ok


Posted by Terry
Driftwood Fungus = Catfish food Posted 8-5-2001

Most sucker mouth cats will eat this fungus and it is an ideal food for catfish fry.

---

Hole in the Head treatment Metronidazole Dose and Usage

Index

Posted by Justin
Metronidazole usage for Hole in the Head

Can someone give me a rundown on the instructions for the use of Metronidazole please?? And most importantly do I have to increase the Temperature to achieve results as you do with Discus??

Posted by Bill
Metronidazole usage for Hole in the Head

The dosage that seems to be recommended is 250mg to 50 litres of water and then filtered out after three days (do not have any other medications in the tank at the same time). Dissolve the tablet in water before adding it to the tank and I have never raised the temperature when treating fish though apparently you can.
If the fish are eating you could crush the tablet up in the food and feed it to the fish dosing them for a few days - that way the medication gets absorbed more.
If treating for hole in head, suggest you also feed earthworms or food which has been rolled in brewers yeast - contains various vitamins which helps cure HIH and helps prevent it recurring.

 
Posted by Cichlids_au
Contrary to others, I would recommend that you give three treatments every second day, with a 20% water change before each dose is given. To "filter out", you should add activated carbon to your filter and discard after your tank has been filtered out for one full cycle.



Posted by E4G13M4N
The way we do it is . Defrost 100grms frozen food (depends on fish which is used) crush up 5 tablets and dissolve in a small amount of water, then mix it in to the food. Refreeze it and feed it to the fish.. Make enough to last 7 days of feeding, I usually make up extra in case it needs to be fed longer and have it ready made at all times in case its needed.

(Editors note: Just as a quick note for the forum FAQ - Metronidazole can be purchased through your local vet or doctor. If you go to you GP to get Metronidazole for Hole in the Head - you can get either a 250mg or a 400mg preparation. Most doctors and vets are willing to help in this matter. YeW)

---

Pop Eye

Index

Posted by ed
Pop Eye

Pop Eye

What is the cause of Pop Eye ? How is it cured?

t.i.a. ed

Posted by MagicaDiSpell
Pop Eye

Hi Ed,
I subscribe to a fish-health e-mail list and this topic was brought up the other day. If I pasted the entire "conversation" I would probably be banned from the board, so I'll try and give a little overview of the theories.

Popeye (exopthalmia) can be environmental, but can also be a side-effect of systemic bacterial infections such as fish TB. It seems that bad environment (water quality) is the cause more often than not, and is easily rectified with water changes.

However, as fish get older, their immune response may diminish, and they are less able to fight off infections which they may have had most of their lives in a "controlled" dormant state. The author has seen elderly zebra danios succumb to TB at the end of their lives, and we weren't even aware till then that there was TB in the tank. In situations where adult fishes die but fry remain healthy, it is rare for water conditions to be the problem. So I guess this problem is simply a case of old age.

On that e-mail list it was also suggested that deficiencies of certain vitamins (especially A and E) will result in Pop-eye-like conditions. This would be consistent with it's occurance in older fish.

It is also possible that the fish suffer from another form of nutritional cause: Imagine that Riboflavin deficiency were to blame. For example, if you are using predominantly dry foods, and Riboflavin is (if I remember ) sensitive to heat, light, and air. So it may be possible for a fish to run deficient over time.

On the other hand.... perhaps a mineral could be involved, similar to the cases of nephrocalcinosis caused by an imbalance of calcium/magnesium/phosphorous. Some trace elements such as zinc are prone to being bound up by excesses of these other cations. In this case you might wonder if the buffer you are using is inadequate. And even with all the L-ascorbyl-polyphosphate being used I still see signs of vitamin C deficiency in fish. (I wish I had better information handy on this. I'll try as soon as I get a chance.)

So, as you can see the experts are divided. But let me say, that I had popeye in my colony of Ophthalmotilapias, one female after the other would get it and eventually die. We treated with Octazin, because that was recommended somewhere on the net (can't remember where exactly). And it didn't help at all. In my case I think the fish where getting old and their immune system broke down. But, the causes seem to be as varied as the fish that suffer from it.

I hope this helped a bit and didn't confuse too much. Sabine



Posted by astromatt
Pop Eye

I had a corydoras which got popeye. My lfs owner told me that it is normally due to a gas imbalance i.e. too much of a dissolved gas in the water and this imbalance (ie. greater gas pressure inside the fish than outside in the water) causes the eyes to bulge outwards. He said that filtering over activated carbon would remove the dissolved gases (this sounds a bit dodgy too me!!) or alternatively put the fish into a quarantine tank with new water in it. I initially filtered my water over activated carbon but ended up putting the fish into an ice-cream container floating in the main tank ( i also put a little salt in there). This cured the popeye.

---

Scratched Eye

Index

Posted by Juneau 95
Scratched Eye

Hi all

One of my O. nasuta I believe has scratched one of his eyes. The eye appears to be slightly cloudy in one spot. The eye may or maynot also be a little enlarged.
I think it is right to treat with salt, but at what dosage and which salt to use?
Also should this fish be separated or treatment in the main tank is OK?

Thanks

Posted by matti
Scratched Eye

Hi Juneau,

My blue acara scratched his eye and it became enlarged also. I treated with Myxazin by applying it direct to the eye with a cotton bud. I treated him in the main tank.

Hope this helps,

Matti

---

Velvet disease?

Index

Posted by oscar
Velvet disease?

Hi guys, just need some help. I brought a adult Red Terror a week ago and i noticed today that it looks a bit like a velvet covering on it. Is there a such thing. Please answer soon as this fish cost me a small fortune
Thanks
Tim

Posted by MagicaDiSpell
Velvet disease?

Hi,

Velvet disease looks a little like white spot. Only the spots are much smaller and denser, resulting in a velvety look. When I once had an outbreak in my tanks (due to a mass death of snails and the resulting ammonia spike), the fish showed extreme respiratory distress and they were lying on their sides, looking like they were about to keel over - literally. Velvet disease progresses very fast. Fish may not seem effected at all and eight hours later they are dead.

Octazin was incredibly effective in treating Velvet disease. We added it to the water and literally within one our the fish that looked like they might not make it through the next couple of hours were swimming around happily like nothing has happened.

Posted by blue gularis
Velvet disease?

Hi all,
The best cure for velvet (Oodinium) I have found is raising the temp 5-7 degrees and add 1 tablespoon of salt for every 10L of tank water. For fish badly affected a sea water dip works well you can see the parasites fall off.

Gary H-H

Posted by Cichlids au
Velvet disease?

Hi Tim

Gary is spot on with this but be careful of the salt bathing. It's dangerous, so get some help if you haven't done it before.

Up the temp, add some salt and then you can treat it with ANY White Spot treatment or a broad-spectrum antiparasite treatment.

Here is what I can pass on about it.
Velvet disease or Gold Dust disease is caused by a single celled organism (dinoflagellate). Oodinium in fresh water and Amyloodinium in salt water

The parasite moves from fish to fish as flagellated spores (that's a spore with a tail for swimming) and can live away from the fish for at least a day.

Heavy infestations can occur in the gills killing the fish without showing any other signs. Long-term control can be hard if the parasite establishes itself in the internal organs.

It?s persistent in killifish, goldfish marine coral fish and some anabantoids.

Oodinium?s life cycle is like this.
1/ Dinospores form a root like structure and become parasitic on the fins, skin and gills. (You can treat the fish at this stage, in tank for slight infestations, separated if heavy)
2/ After 3 to 7 days the mature parasites fall away and swell up.
3/ Each cell divides inside a cellulose cyst, producing about 200 spores.
4/ The spores are released and have 2 tails (flagella) You can treat the tank here by removing the fish and cranking up the temp.
5/ The spores mature (and develop only 1 tail) and infest fish. That completes the cycle.

Obvious symptoms are
Yellow ? grey coating in the skin and fins, fish may scrape against rocks and show an increased gill movement. As it gets worse they go off their food and lie motionless. Skin may peel away in strips.

Although this disease may be confused with other conditions like white spot (Ichthyophthirius multifilitis), velvet infested fish often look like they have been sprinkled with gold dust where as white spot makes the fish look like they have been sprinkled with salt or sugar.

Lucky white spot treatment works for both


Cichlids_au

---

Worming Fish

Index

Posted by Bruce and Anita
Worming fish

Has anyone ever wormed their fish?? If so, what did you use and what was the dosage?? I have 2 female Fusco's who eat heaps and have hollow bellies. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Anita

Posted by LAKA
Worming fish

...Intestinal parasitic infections can be caused by tapeworms-cestodes, that will lead to emaciation of the fish even though it has an appetite. Praziquantel is the drug of choice that can be purchased from a vet as Droncit 50mg or from a medico as Biltricide 600mg. Dosage is 5-10 ml of stock sln. to live blackworms for a 10 minute soaking then feed to fish-may need to be repeated a few days later. Stock sln is 100mg of drug dissolved in 1.75ml ethanol and 3.25ml distilled water.

Posted by Tim
Worming fish

...but you dont mention how much black worms you add it too?? and also what size fish it treat's?? or if you can add it to different types of food?
i know the fish she wants to treat are relatively large ...
she also will be treating them in a 2ft tank does it matter at all on tank volume??
Tim

Posted by LAKA
Worming fish

Tim
According to "Fish Medicine" by Stoskopf, the actual dose is 400mg/100 g of food fed daily for 5-7 days. It doesn't matter what type of feed is used as long as it is eaten and the tank size is irrelevant as we are aiming for oral administration of the drug.The frequency of feeding is anybody's guess but i would say as a starting point feed the medicated food once daily in the amount that will be consumed entirely without any leftovers.

Posted by Thomas
Worming fish

I uses similar method, but instead of the real drug (praziquantel), I uses dog's all wormer tablet. Dissolve in a container of water with live blackworm for 30 mins. before giving them to the fish. Got rid of tapeworm infection in my discus in several applications of it.

Posted by @nthony
Worming fish

You can actually get a Praziquantel wormer specifically designed for fish. It is called Worm-Rid and is made by CPV. I know Auburn Aq (9648 5200) carries it. I think the dose rate is 1 tab per 20l. Personally I would prefer to use a product specifically designed for and tested on fish rather than guessing dose rates using medications intended for dogs.
Just my thoughts
@nthony

Posted by George of Boronia Aquariums
Worming fish

For the last 5+ years the standard treatment is Ivomectin. It is very safe, easy to dose and very effective. You can get it from your local vet.
George

Posted by LAKA
Worming fish

George
My understanding is that Ivermectin is ineffective against cestodes-intestinal tapeworms, this is where praziquantel is highly effective. Ivermectin is a macrolide antibiotic with a broad range of anti-parasitic activity but in ornamental fish its mainly used for Camallanus infections...

---

Cheap Filter Wool?

Index

Posted by K
Cheap filter wool

where can i buy filter wool in large quantities?

Posted by Raycam_01
Cheap filter wool

Hi K dude, mate the best way to go is to buy off cuts of Dacron from material shops, i run my room on Dacron powered filters, and it costs me about $5.00 every 4-5months,,,,(Dacron is cheap up here)

Posted by Bruce and Anita
Cheap filter wool

Hi, any haberdashery store (Spotlight etc) will sell it to you by the metre - it's as cheap as chips. Ray, I'm surprised you replace yours. It can be washed out when dirty and reused. Anita

---

Fluidised Bed Filters

Index

Posted by matti
Fluidised Bed Filters

Hi all,

I have a few questions about fluidised bed filters. Can they run a tank on their own or is some mechanical filtration needed as well?

What tanks are they suited for?

Can the sand be removed and replaced with other media?

What do people think about them?

Thanks, any info will be great

Matti

Posted by Cichlids au
Fluidised Bed Filters

Hi Matti

"Can they run a tank on their own or is some mechanical filtration needed as well?" Mechanical is needed also

"What tanks are they suited for?" All

"Can the sand be removed and replaced with other media?" Yes

"What do people think about them?" They are excellent


Posted by steph
Fluidised Bed Filters

Having said that the sand is removable, I think it defeats the purpose of running an FBF. The idea of the sand is to create a massive surface area volume for the bacteria to live on, which I doubt you would get with any other media with out increasing the amount of space the filter takes.

Steph

Posted by fishybizness
Fluidised Bed Filters

Their one downside is, due to the fact they have such a huge surface area, they also have the potential to house massive populations of bacteria. This might have the effect of removing large amounts of 02 from the water, returning 02 deficient water to the tank.

I also happen to think they are great, but all filters have their pluses and minuses.

They must have a prefilter, as they are only biological.

I would think really only necessary if you have a large fish load, and particularly if you population fluctuates.

I don't know what you would replace the media (sand) with if you removed it as Mark suggested?

Posted by MagicaDiSpell
Fluidised Bed Filters

Fluidised bed filters are fantastic. They are particularly suited to large tanks or tank systems with fluctuating stock levels.

I agree with Steph. Sand is the optimal media for this type of filter. Why would you want to change it and what would you replace it with. If you are experiencing loss of filter material you can always add some more, but unless you have a better material (larger surface to volume ratio) you should not really change the material for another.

As Craig has already mentioned, the BOD (biological oxygen demand) is quite high in these filters, so be sure to provide a reasonable amount of aeration to the tank and or filter.

Posted by Calldrick
Fluidised Bed Filters

Roel

Where do you get the clear PVC pipe from? As I have been looking but the Plumbing supplies, BBC hardware and the pool shop could not tell me where I might be able to find a length of it.

Regards
Steven

Posted by jaaasgoed
Fluidised Bed Filters

Hi, Steven, I don't know if I can help you, I Live in The Netherlands, (don't know where you live). My dad works at a swimming pool and they use it for their filter system as well, so he can get me a length of it. An other source for them is one of those water pipe lamp things with air bubbles for in your living room. (hope you know what I mean, not lava lamp) They are also made of PVC, I think (some sort of plastic anyway) Can't think of any other source to get them. It seems odd that a pool shop can't get them for you.

Hope this is of some help to you,

Roel

---

Overflow noise

Index

Posted by Baz
Overflow noise

I'm like Starrey in that I have just set up a new tank which has an overflow and reef filter. I also notice a lot of noise coming from my tank now, but mine seems to be coming more from the overflow itself and not the filter.
I am interested to hear about different methods of setting up an overflow. I've seen some with sponges, standpipes with holes drilled in the side, standpipes with no holes, no standpipe at all....

What works for you in keeping the noise to a minimum?

Posted by Dawson
Overflow noise

With the noise, is it coming out of the pipe draining to the sump? If so, I have actually heard of people putting a smaller diameter pipe through the main one. This APPARENTLY stops the gurgling. Also, what about pipe noise insulation? I know that they use that kind of thing for a lot of air conditioner stuff, so perhaps a look in a local air conditioner place wouldn't go astray...

Cheers

Aaron

Posted by AndrewP
Overflow noise

How about trying shoving a big sponge down the over flow, the water will then hit the sponge and the noise will be muffled, we did this with a drain pipe in my old house that made lots of noise, it was very effective.

Posted by starrey
Overflow noise

I have a green bristle like sponge in my weir the water hits that first before hitting the white filter sponge that surrounds the perforated tube. This green sponge is kinda wiry there is no way that it could disintegrate, perhaps you could try that Baz.

Sarah

---

Wanted: crystal clear water?

Index

Posted by GREEN TERROR
Wanted: crystal clear water?

i have a 3foot tank with a via aqua 350 canister filter and water never seems to be clear?
i am just starting in this hobby and really have no idea.
i have a piece of driftwood (runs length of tank) is this problem? Water not brown but seems cloudy with lots of tiny suspended matter.
also i am not sure what to put in the filter? i have just got what it came with - white wool, black spongy stuff, black bally things and white tubey things (sorry i have no idea what there called) is there something better to put in to make water clearer?

ps: i suppose it is important to say i have approx 15 fish, maximum size 3 inch, including- firemouth, cuban, jack dempsey, brasiliensis, rivulatis, silver sharks, blue acara and a couple of bristle-nose catfish (all get on ok so far) is this an issue to water quality?

much appreciated if any knowledge can be shared.

Posted by Smokey Jewel
Wanted: crystal clear water?

Green Terror,

Firstly your unclear water conditions and white floaty particles sounds very familiar to me. I also have a Via Aqua filter its the biggest 750 I think. When I first set up the currant tank I put an old piece of driftwood in that had not been used for aprox 8 months. First after getting water logged again it started to get white film all over the underside & shady bits of it, these then started to come off & float all around the tank. I took out the wood and washed it under the tap on full & scrubbed it with my hands until it came clean. Now no problems.
Carbon in filter: used to remove heavy metal & other chemicals in the water, doesn't work straight away (or so I've been told) but should help at least until you get a stable tank.

Good luck

Smokey

Posted by AndrewP
Wanted: crystal clear water?

Green Terror,
The fish you have are all fairly messy, they eat like pigs and cause a lot of suspended food particles. These fish also constantly move the bottom around so any stuff in the gravel will be disturbed. I'm not familiar with the filter you have but you stated it was a canister filter so that is a good start. You have obviously already had your tank run in through the tanks setup nitrogen (bacteria) cycle. If you want to keep the water cleaner there are a few steps that will work well.

1) Get another filter, make sure it is a power hang on filter. An aquaclear 300 would be perfect, your canister filter is not designed to clean the water efficiently as far as particles go, these hang on filters do an excellent job. It is normal to have small particles floating around, it is not detrimental in any way as long as it isn't effecting the look of the tank. Getting one of these filters may cost you an extra $100 bucks but it is the best money you will spend, you will be surprised what a difference it makes. You can also get things that sit in these filters called "Bio Chem Stars". These are excellent and add extra biological surface area to your filter for only about $10. You need 6 to 8 of those.

2)That white tint you mention is often caused by a bacteria bloom. Don't worry if this is the cause as it is harmless, it will go away by itself in a couple of weeks. Occasionally I get them in my tanks and they last only a day or two. Recently one of my tanks went very milky, I panicked and check for all the regulars, but the fish were fine. I left it go and the next day it had completely gone. Make sure you test for Ammonia, Nitrite, Ph. With these in their correct levels your water will be fine.

3) Make sure your tank has gravel only about 1 inch thick in depth, the more gravel you have the more crap that is stored in it, The gravel in all my tanks is only about .5cm thick and it stays a lot cleaner than deep gravel, which also attracts anaerobic bacteria if not regularly turned over. The only basic reason I have gravel is to cover the reflective glass.

4) The fish you have in a 3 foot tank are putting a fair load on the filter and are fairly dirty, make sure you regularly clean the gravel using a gravel siphon cleaner about every two weeks, you should change 1/3 of the water during this process.

5) As far as feeding goes, make sure you use good quality foods and only feed as much as they will eat in about 1 minute, a fishes stomach is about the same size as their eye. Crap foods add more crap into the tank. Feed the fish only twice a day.

6) Using carbon is a good idea but you will find the best way to keep your water clean is to have ample biological filtration. Using the two filters will achieve this. I have never used carbon in 10 years, except when I first started, the water in my tanks is crystal clear with no tints to it. I'm not sure but that black sponge you have may have activated carbon impregnated into it. I know the black sponge you get with EHIEM filters is made t

---

Cheap Fish Food

Index

Posted by Dan
Cheap food for cichlids

Hi all,

I was just wondering if anyone knew of a cheap place to buy food for my cichlids. Currently i am buying brine shrimp (32 frozen pellets) for around six dollars. My LFS also sells small packets of Hikari pellets for five dollars each. Any advice is much appreciated.

Dan

Posted by YeW
Cheap food for cichlids

I use:

100g whitebait/fish
200g prawn/crab
100g squid/octopus
500g or so of chopped frozen spinach
a couple of sheets of Sushi Nori.


Blend it all up (best in a food processor) - add to this about 2-3 cups of hot water with gelatine in. Spoon the mixture into the ice cube trays with the small cubes (these cost about a dollar each - buy four or five)
Freeze and empty the trays into an ice-cream bucket... I pay about $10 for about a kilo of the stuff which lasts me and my four tanks about 3-6 months. (Depending how much I give away) If you are concerned about parasites (and I don't think you really need be as the ingredients are for human consumption after all)... you could boil the fish/prawns/squid for about 1/2 an hour first... If you have Africans use more vege's... if you have south Americans you can add more meaty products (eg beef heart etc etc)

You can vary the quantities and products in this preparation easily, in the past I have used fish fillets, krill, zucchini and other vegetables. Your best bet is to research the feeding habits of the fish you are interested in - and tailor the recipe accordingly. In terms of percentage protein vs vegetable matter. YeW



Posted by Anon
Cheap food for cichlids

Hi Dan,

The cheapest place (that I've found) to buy flake and pellet food is the NSW Cichlid Society. The Society runs a trade table at its monthly meetings where they sell food (and other items) that they buy in bulk and re-package. Most of the members that I have spoken to use it with no problems at all.

At the last meeting I bought a 250g packet of flake and a 500g packet of medium sized sinking pellets for $12.50.

---

Daphnia as live food

Index

Posted by Fishybizness
Daphnia as live food

Let me start off by saying, I don't consider myself an expert in daphnia culture, and I'm sure it could be done better than the way I do at home. My way of doing it has evolved primarily from a lack of time, and using what I had handy at home (100L barrels). Daphnia are small reddish "water-flea" like crustaceans. It is my understanding that as a food source, a large part of their benefit comes from what they have been eating (that is, what is inside them when they are themselves eaten). And that a daphnia that has been of a "diet" (stored alive before it has been frozen for commercial purposes, and given the chance to process and evacuate stomach contents?), has little nutritional value to a fish. The advantage to growing them at home is that you will be taking them straight from their home to a fish?s stomach, with no unknown "middleman" or "process", possibly reducing a daphnia's nutritional benefit. As a side benefit, wrigglers (mosquito larva) seem to thrive in the conditions that are beneficial to daphnia. I don't necessarily advertise this area of daphnia culture to my neighbours... Daphnia is very easy to cultivate. I use 100L barrels, I know of another who uses old concrete laundry tubs. The advantage the 100 L barrels have, is their depth. In the summer, the water can get very hot, hot enough in fact to cook the wrigglers (which must come to the surface to breath), which is a loss, but no drama as these deaths are soon made up for by other mosquitos. The daphnia is another matter. If I lost them, I would have to resource them. But with the barrels the daphnia simply go lower down in the water column, thereby choosing their own temperature. After about 25 cm or so, the water is dramatically cooler. Daphnia tend to go through ?boom/bust? periods, having several containers will even out their supply, plus give you a safety net if all daphnia in one container happen to die. The containers themselves should be situated in a reasonable sunny location, enough sun to encourage green water (but not full sun), as the algae is a food source for the daphnia. Their main source of food, and this is what makes a big difference to live food generation, is with the addition of yeast (used in making bread). It really seems to pull the mossies in (judging from how many wrigglers I get out, and the fact I'm still doing so in winter), and is able to support a huge population of wrigglers and daphnia. I tend to rely more on the wrigglers in summer, as if I don't use them, they hatch out, which I don't particular want - I imagine, nor would my neighbours. And even though I am still getting wrigglers at this time of year, I need to use the daphnia to make up for the shortfall. I use about a teaspoon of yeast per barrel, which I pour into my hand and squash/dissolve under water in the barrel itself (the water is freezing in winter - "oh my aching hand") Another way is to pre-dissolve it in a separate container, and pour it into the water. I add yeast when the water starts to become clear, or if I feel the live food supply is dro

---

DIY Brine shrimp hatchery

Index

Posted by Devo
Brine shrimp hatchery

In the aquamail catalogue they sell a hatchery for brine shrimp...does anyone know where i can get it in Sydney???

Posted by Yvonne
Brine shrimp hatchery

You can easily make your own brines shrimp (BS) hatchery with two 2 or 3L coke bottle, all you have to do is cut off the bottom part of one bottle, and the top part of the other so the fist bottle can sit upside down in the second bottle...

then all you have to do is get an air stone, and some airline, and put the air stone down the bottom (neck part) of the inverted bottle, and viola, instant BS hatchery

I've heard that the commercial types of hatcheries aren't that wonderful anyway... but I've never owned one so i wouldn't know

Yvonne

---

Feeding frozen prawns & minces/heart

Index

Posted by Oscar
Feeding prawns

Hi all This is probably a stupid question but do you feed your fish with the prawn head on or off? That spike could do a lot of damage couldn't it? Can you also feed them raw mince or not?
Thanks

Posted by Bill
Feeding prawns

I would tend to "skin" the prawn completely before feeding it because the shell can cause digestive problems with fish - anyway just my thoughts.

I never feed my fish any animal meat at all (eg beef heart, mince etc etc) as it contains saturated fats which fish cannot digest. There are plenty of fish meats around now and they love a raw fillet of whiting from time to time

Posted by Alex (WA)
Feeding prawns

I feed my Red tailed catfish whole prawns and beef heart and he is very healthy. But Bill is right about the saturated fat part, you have to be very careful don't over feed with beef heart and never feed ox heart. (Editors note: Red tailed catfish should have a day of fasting (eg: no food) every two or three) It depends on what fish you have, if you have cichlids it is probably better to take the shell and head off so that they can get to the meat inside but if you have large fish I would just feed them whole I don't think that in the wild fish have people shelling all the small crustaceans that they eat.

Thanx Alex

Posted by Anita
Feeding prawns

I've tried feeding whole prawns and peeled prawns and my fish didn't like either version. When I make a batch of food as I did today, I put in whole green prawns - unpeeled, heads and all - but they go through the blender first and my fish love it.
Anita

(Editors note: When I make up prepared frozen food as detailed in the FoodFAQ I also use whole unshelled prawns. )

---

How do you culture blackworms?

Index

Posted by quinnie81
How do you culture blackworms?

How do you culture blackworms? I was told to put them in the fridge and feed them a fish pellet or two. I have them in an ice cream container in the fridge. What should i do with these things? Thanks

Andrew

Posted by crabros
How do you culture blackworms?

Hi i just keep them in the bag they come in from the shop and every 3 days i empty there water and replace with water out of my tank they last a long time by doing this but you must keep them in a fridge tie the bag up like if you where bagging your fish for sale as this also keeps oxygen in the bag hope this helps you out.

Posted by Tim
How do you culture blackworms?

i keep mine in a kitty litter tray and feed it old banana peel, haven't run out yet...i don't change the water too often maybe once a week. keep um in an old fridge and have been that way and alive for over 1 week so far can also see that they have eaten the peel... there seem to be breeding also...although i don't think you can really know if they are unless you have been using the 1 culture for over 1 year

Tim

Posted by Alex
How do you culture blackworms?

That technique sounds familiar Tim
My culture has been going for about 2 years now, I only take worms out once or twice a week and I keep them outside. I also give them some fish food every now and then, as well as the banana peel.
Oh, and a good way to get them out is to use one of those filter pipe cleaners-leave it in the water and the worms will wrap around the black brush end, take it out and shake in the water.

---

Meal Worms

Index

Posted by koolabah
Meal Worms

I was told that the occasional meal worm for my Americans is good/ok. My garden is running out of earth worms and blood worms are expensive. So i have been feeding Meal Worms every 3-4th day, only a couple in each large tank. Thats expensive too!

So my question is:
"what are the conditions to breed meal worm?" Do I just put bran into a larger container and just grab the worms when I want to use them?


thanks
kelly

Posted by Griffin
Meal Worms

Hey Koolabah,
I breed mealworms for my frogs and you're right - it's pretty much 'just add bran'.

The worms will turn into beetles and then breed in the container. Just an observation, but adding something moist to their container like a chopped up potato triggers the metamorphism, which can be a pain as you end up with too many beetles and not many worms! I find keeping a few ice cream containers half full of bran and the odd bit of pumpkin or potato works well.

You'll know if the bran needs changing as it will have been processed into a sawdust like substance by the mealworms. When you change the bran use a sieve as the baby mealworms are tiny.

All up, I think it's a few months to cycle through one generation. 'Living Jungle' at Rocky Point, Sydney has a decent sized tub (the medium round take-away sort) for 9 bucks. I have 3 ice-cream tubs going - with about 2 of the above tubs of worms split between them and take out about 20 per week with no problems.

That's all I can think of but please ask if you have any questions.

Cheers,
Julian

Posted by Anita
Meal Worms

Hi Kelly,
I bought my mealworms out of the paper in the bird section. A lovely old man in the bush cultivates them and I got a box chocker block full of them for $40 including postage. Came with full instructions etc and mine were going great for ages till the rats feasted on them (keep a lid on the container). Even that was ok as none of my fish particularly liked them, but it was THE most economical way to buy them in bulk.
Hope this helps
Anita

Posted by YeW2001
Meal Worms

I keep mine in almost the same way - you can culture them on oats/bran/corn/lentils - just about any grain. I have heard it said that using carrot instead of potato adds to the nutritional value of the worms. I make a grain lasagne (three or so layers- it's not critical) with pieces of newspaper/plain paper (which the beetles seem to live in)... I have been culturing these guys for around 3 years now and always have plenty - they are the easiest live food to culture short of vinegar eels....

All the best -
YeW

Posted by CID in OZ
Meal Worms

Hi Kelly
just put a feeder container in the fridge in the fridge and keep the rest of the culture going 'cause if they don't turn to beetles they don't lay eggs and don't make little worms.

Best time to feed them is when they are shedding their skin. All the other recommendations are on the button.
Chris D

---

Mosquito larvae as food - Culture information

Index

Posted by Mick
Culturing mosquito larvae

G'day.
From my earliest fish keeping days I can remember feeding mosquito larvae to my fish, 12 years later I still do. Mosquito larvae used to be just a once in a while thing ... if I got some great but I NEVER thought about breeding them until recently .....
Lately I have been trying to breed my fish and as we know live foods are the best for inducing spawning. I 4/5 fill a large ice cream container with water, add a small amount of dry yeast to the water (something for the larvae to eat) and put it out of harms way, well away from the house (the smell is TERRIBLE!). After a couple of days you should see small black masses floating on the surface ... these are egg rafts, they can be stored in the fridge in a small container of water for a week or two until they are needed, when needed just take them out and put them in a container of water out side.
After about 4weeks the yeast will die, you can tell when this happens because the smell goes, when it dies, mozzies stop laying their eggs in the water.
I have found that using leaves and other vegetation is far less successful than yeast (don't know why)
If you choose, remove all of the egg rafts from the yeast water and put them in a container or tank water, this will eliminate the risk of contaminating your fish tank with yeasty water I don't know if it does any harm as I rinse all of my larvae under the tap before feeding them to my fish.
The new born larvae are the perfect size for first food for fry because of their size and they are packed with protein.
Mick
I originally got the idea from an 'Australian aquariums and water gardens mag' (not sure on the name)

---

Pellets v Flakes

Index

Posted by starrey
Pellets v Flakes

I have just been reading an article in a US site that pellets are not an ideal food as they swell and can cause bloating and irritate their digestive tract and that they should be soaked before hand and fed in very small quantities. My larger cichlids love the pellets (brine) but should i stick to the flake variety. Is the Malawi bloat common. It also stated to feed them zuccini and peas and lettuce. Should the zucchini and peas be cooked and then cut into tiny pieces or is it a mash which is then frozen into cubes. Thanks Sarah

Posted by zam1
Pellets v Flakes

I have heard the same information about soaking pellets before feeding.

I don't soak pellets before feeding, however, when feeding pellets I only feed them a little at a time but often. Unlike flake where you can feed them more in one sitting.

I think provided you feed your fish a variety of foods eg: frozen, live, pellet, and flake you should not have any problems with bloat or the like.


Cheers

Posted by Arj
Pellets v Flakes

Hi Sarah,
I feed my fish, Sera Granu green (vege granules), Wardley color flakes, HBH vege pellets, frozen blood and brine shrimp, zapped peas (microwaved on high for 30sec and then peeled) and fresh zucchini (they love the zucchini). so they get a variety and they don't complain (more variety than i get!)
I haven't heard anything about pellets being bad for fish. I generally don't like them because they make a mess when the fish eat them. it crumbles after they eat and the then some get spat out clouding the water. but they like the HBH stuff. apparently the cichlid attack by HBH is supposed to be good also. If you can, please give me more detail on this article you read. can't learn enough in this hobby!
Malawi bloat is caused by too much protein. I think. so as long as you don't give your fish too much of it, some pellets have lots of crude protein - see the label or like black worms (they are also known to carry lots of bacteria - but i used to feed them to my fish once a week - not anymore) you should be ok. so with the vege mix and pellets you should be fine. use the frozen food recipe on this site.
by the way hows the fish doing? time is near for you to buy more fish eh?

Arj.

Posted by Arj
Pellets v Flakes

Best thing to do is get a bottle of Melafix and add a dose to your tank. especially since your tank is new etc. It is very good and keeps your tank smelling nice too! hahahaha
I just cut the zucchini in half (length wise - like a trench - exposing the white inside) and then say cut into half or into quarters depending on size and attach a rock to it and drop it in the tank. after about 3 hrs, they would have made the zucchini into a trough!
i put the raw zucchini in and they like to scrape it off. you can zap it in the microwave to make it softer. when i make the vege mix, i zap it in the microwave (whole thing) and then it goes into the food processor. oh yeah, just roughen the zucchini before you put into the tank. makes it easier for them to scrape off and eat. use your grater. they are used to scraping off algae and they like to do the same to the zucchini - instincts i guess!


Arj.

---

Using whiting/whitebait as fish food

Index

Posted by Justin
Whitebait

Whiting and Whitebait Posted 6-5-2001

Hi all,

Just looking through the seafood section at the local supermarket ,they are selling a product called Whitebait. This seems to be very tiny fish. Has anybody ever used this as a cichlid food, also does anybody use whiting fillets cut into small pieces.... What are your results and thoughts????

Justin

Posted by YeW
Whitebait

Hi Justin,

I have never used whiting (whole) but have regularly used whitebait with my central and south american cichlids... like all fresh foods they may be a little uncertain at first, but my oscars/central American cichlids did enjoy whitebait quite a lot. I have used whiting in various frozen food recipes.

See: FoodFAQ

Hope this helps,
YeW

Posted by Tim
Whitebait

I use it as the main food for my Cichla's Posted 6-5-2001

White bait is extremely handy for fish that are hooked on feeders, i seriously doubt if my Cichlas know the difference between a whitebait and a live feeder, both are taken to quickly, the white bait is gone almost as it hit's the surface as ar feeders and as White bait is almost the same size as a good sized feeder and look like a fish they don't even hesitate, i at first tried chopped up prawns and it took them a while but they slowly ate it, now they wont touch worms offer whitebait, lol, it also happens to be some of the cheapest food, being around $5-$6 a kilo you can save a lot of money, if you want variety chopped up whiting would be fine, but the whitebait will almost always be cheaper.

Tim

---

American cichlid community setups

Index

Posted by Davies
American Cichlid Communities

I've been keeping fish for about 20 years, including general communities, discus and African cichlids. I have a new 200 litre tank (50 US gall) and was wondering whether I could set it up with a community of American cichlids.
Is this a complete no, no ...or is it feasible. I'd prefer a number of fish average 6 inches each. I'm not interested in breeding them. If its a goer, what would be a good selection of species and how many could I keep. Would a single specimen from each of several species reduce aggression? i.e. no breeding or pairing up going on.
Thanks in anticipation.
Ian

Posted by Tim
American Cichlid Communities

Hi Ian, a 50 gal would be great for a South American setup, you could start with some Juruparies, or Surinamensis type Geophagus's, the Blackthroats would be better as they stay smaller, even some Balzanii although they are a little shy and get picked on easily, choose 1 of them i don't think it would be really wise to have 1 of all 3 but 2 or 3 of 1 species would be good, then you could go maybe some Microgeophagus altipisona's, or some Guianacra geayi (if you can find any, hopefully mine will spawn soon) then maybe some of the more outgoing Apisto's like Bitaeniata, Nijesseni or Panrurini , again only chose 1, or have only males then you could also maybe add something like the festivums they add a lot of top water movement to the tank
it's even plausible to breed all of these in the same tank without problems as all of them are pretty easy going when spawning especially with this sort of mix,

Tim

Posted by YeW
American Cichlid Communities

Hi Ian,
I would suggest much as Tim has done... stick to the south American cichlids as they are generally more peaceful than their central American cousins... Some good fish would be Geophagines - stick to the smaller species, Mesonauta (the flag cichlids) and perhaps some of the more peaceful fish from the "Aequidens" complex (Port acaras, Laetacara (hump head acaras), Keyholes (Cleithracara maroni) etc)
Good luck with it,
YeW

Posted by Magica DiSpell
American Cichlid Communities

We are currently keeping an American community tank with several Geophagus surinamensis (blackthroats), golden severums, a couple of G. braziliensis (they are still growing up) and a pair of Aequidens rivulatus (Green terror), that keep breeding regularly (and so supply their tank mates with some extra protein). Oh, and of course we have a few catfish in that setup: a pictus catfish (for looks), a clown loach (for snails) and a bristlenose (to keep the glass clean).

---

DIY egg tumbler

Index

Posted by jess
DIY egg tumbler

Hi

could someone kindly provide me with info on how to make an egg tumbler please. thanks

jess

Posted by AndrewP
DIY egg tumbler

You need
1) A sponge filter (with air pump)
2) A breeding trap
3) A stainless steel tea strainer

1) Set the breeding trap up on the side of the tank, in the tank that has the adults, or in a tank with freshly drawn water from the breeding tank.

2) Rest the tea strainer on the top of the trap so that the mesh part is under water and the rim resting on the edge of the trap. The tea strainer must be stainless steel, plastic ones have microscopic imperfections that are sharp and may burst the eggs.

3) Set up the sponge filter next to the trap so that the water coming out of the outflow of the filter flows directly onto the edge of the strainer and into the strainer itself. Experiment with the amount of water coming out by using a air tap, you don't want the eggs being blown around but a little movement is good. You don't want the outflow bubbling too much, if you get air bubbles forming on the eggs it will kill the eggs, in my best setup I found that sticking a length of pipe into the outflow caused less bubbling by the time the water flowed out of the pipe, compared to flowing straight out of the outflow.

The benefit of this setup is that the water flowing onto the eggs is oxygenated and freshly filtered. By the water flowing into the tea strainer and therefore the breeding trap, it forces water to move out of the trap thus pushing and wastes out and away from the eggs, thus preventing fungus.

Regards AndrewP

Posted by 00 MooRRii 00
DIY egg tumbler

Yeah just make sure you use a nylon sieve not a stainless steal one because the steal ones grate your eggs and will kill them. This had happened to me a couple of times.

Posted by hyperdive
DIY egg tumbler

I find my tumbler a bit more "fry friendly" than a bubble strainer type.

Take an UG filter tube, A little bit of netting and an air stone.

You simply section of the bottom part with the netting, and put the air stone at the top so it drags the water upwards through the sectioned off area, tumbling the eggs and keeping the eggs in a sectioned off area, so there is no chance of them sticking to the side and drying out.

As you can see, it is a simple design, and you don't get the trouble of bubbles on the eggs, or eggs getting flipped up onto the side of the strainer.
The bubbles simply pull the water up through the bottom, through the eggs, which are trapped in between two bits of netting. The fry can remain in there until they use up their egg sacs.

            | o o  ||   o  |
            |  o   ||  o  o|
            | o o  ||   o  |
            |  o   ||  o  o|
            | o o  ||   o  |
            |  o   ||  o  o|
            |   o ----o    |
            |    o|o |  o  |
            |  oo |  | o   |
            |    o| o| o   |
            |     ----     |
            |              |
            |      A       |
            |              |
            +--------------+  <--- joiner
            |              |
           ~|~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ |~  <--- net
            |              |
            +--------------+
            |              |
            |      B       |
            |              |
            |              |
            |              |
            |              |
            |              |
            |              |
            |              |
            |              |
            |     O     O  |
            |   O  O    O O|
            |  O O  OO O OO|
           ~|~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ |~  <--- net
           /                \
          /                  \
         /                    \
         |          C         |
         |                    |
        ~|~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ |~  <--- net

Andy

Posted by CiChoDude
DIY egg tumbler

What type of netting material do you use, Hyperdrive?

Posted by AndrewP
DIY egg tumbler

I bought all the bits today, I'm going to use panty hose. I'm also going to put some sponges in the base of the tubes so that the panty hose will not clog attracting fungus causing material to the eggs.

Posted by hyperdive
DIY egg tumbler

Sorry it's been ages since I saw this post, and I forgot about it. I use simple netting from a fabric store. Pantyhose or similar will do the job too.

Sorry Andrew I can't think of a single simple way of making the water filtered.

I'm thinking though!


Andy

---

Filling up on CO2

Index

Posted by Neill
Filling up on CO2

Hi

Just wondering if there is anyone here who owns a bottle for co2 purposes? I have been told that there is a three week waiting period minimum for getting your bottles refilled by BOC gasses. Does anyone know where i can get a refill within days???

Regards
Neill. J

Posted by zerospel1
Filling up on CO2

stores that stocks co2 systems should be able to do that.

Posted by fishybizness
Filling up on CO2

If it is of any interest.

The CO2 regulator put out by Sera (aquarium company) is a compatible fit with the CO2 bottles sold by Soda Stream (home made soft drink company). The Soda Stream bottle is purchase for around $25 (a lot cheaper than other CO2 bottles) and is replace with a full one each time you take back an empty, for around $6.00. They can be bought from places such as Big W and Hardware House, which means they are also extremely accessible.

I've been using this system for about two years without problem.

Posted by Dan
Filling up on CO2

How often do these soda stream bottles last on average for and what is your bubble rate?

Posted by fishybizness
Filling up on CO2

The bubble rate is really dependent on the Controller. Once the pre-set pH is reached, the solenoid valve prevents co2 entering the tank, and bubbles stop going through the bubble counter. Personally I like to have the water well buffed, so the co2 has a constant battle to bring the pH down (I've got it set at 6.8, and when I looked last night, the pH was 6.9, with lots of bubbles going through.

The actual co2 bottle (Soda Stream) last weeks and weeks. And is cheap enough to have a spare on hand.

Posted by fishybizness
Filling up on CO2

I forgot to mention, Sera is sold by the wholesaler "Aquacenta" (the company that imports Eheim). If you rang them they could tell you who is your closest aquarium. When I say Sera, I am talking about the same company that produces fish food, so it shouldn't be too hard to come by.

---

How to post a picture on the forum!?

Index

Posted by YeW
Post a picture on the forum

Hi All,
Here's a quick rundown on how to post a picture to the forum:
1. Upload the picture to some webspace, most ISPs will give you some webspace with your DIAL-UP contract. If your not sure give your ISP a ring/or look at their homepage for info on how to upload files to your webspace. Spaceports, Yahoo, Geocities and lots of other companies provide free webspace which you can also use. Once you have uploaded your picture you should have a URL for example:
http://www.geocities.com/bianca/fishpic.jpg or http://www.ozemail.com.au/~bob/picture.jpg
2. Posting a picture on the forum:
Ezsupporters: Type: <IMG src="http://ozemail.com.au/~bob/picture.jpg">
Make sure to include your URL not the one I just listed above, also make sure you check the URL is correct. Make sure to select the "Post as HTML" option.
Hope this helps,
YeW

Additional information (Added April 2003): Non-ezysupporters can only use Ezcodes to call pictures to the forum. To do this you need to type [image]http://ozemail.com.au/~bob/picture.jpg[/image]. Alternately, you can post a link on the forum to your picture by typing [link]http://ozemail.com.au/~bob/picture.jpg[/link] - this is particularly useful in situations where the server on which the picture is hosted has bandwidth restrictions

(Editors note: Just as a quick note for the forum FAQ - You can get detailed instructions on this topic here. Cichlids_au).

---

Is there a Canberra Cichlid Society?

Index

Posted by Richard
Canberra cichlid societies?

Hi,
I am to move to Canberra in a couple of weeks and I was wondering whether there was a Cichlid society in Canberra. Also, what dealers are recommended in the nation's capital?
Cheers,
Richard

Posted by Magica DiSpell
Canberra cichlid societies?

There is a "Canberra & District Aquarium Society". They can be contacted under (02) 6252 5523. As far as I know they meet on every second Monday of a month.

Posted by Clarkie
Canberra cichlid societies?

Welcome to Canberra and good luck with your impending move. Magica is correct - the Canberra and District Aquarium Society (CDAS) meets the second Monday of every month at Room 1, Griffin Centre, Bunda St, Civic. Meetings commence at 8pm, with trade table and library open around 7:30pm. You are very welcome to come along as a visitor. I am the public relations officer and we have trade table, library, guest speakers, mini auction at meetings. We also have 'fish buying' excursions to Sydney and Melbourne.
There is no cichlid society in Canberra but there are an increasing number of us CDAS members that keep cichlids. I might also suggest that you join the NSW Cichlid Society as a correspondence member if you are dead set keen on cichlids.
Canberra has around 5 shops of varying quality (i.e. from good quality to mediocre) that sell cichlids, but pretty much mainstream stuff, although there is the occasional surprise. Jem Aquatics at Belconnen would be the best for quality and range of cichlids and others, but also quite expensive. Sydney has much more variety and is easy driving up the expressway.

---

Lake Tanganyika Water Recipe (Cheap salts & buffers)

Index

Posted by Dave
Rift Lake salts & buffers

Hi, could someone please help me with what I need to make good water conditions to suit Malawi and also Tanganyika cichlids.

I had a web site with these details but for some strange reason I didn't book mark it, and do you think I can find it again.

I have some Epson salt/rock salt/bicarbonate of soda. I would be very interested in what works for other people as I am trying to find a recipe that is cheap and has good results. I have tried seachem salts and buffer which worked fine, but have heard that people have different and cheaper ways of doing things. I'm interested to hear peoples ideas and opinions.

Regards Dave.

Posted by Bill
Rift Lake salts & buffers

Brichard in his book on Lake Tang published a chemical analysis of Lake Tang water based upon a Belgium expedition of 1948. From this analysis, one can generate a chemical mixture which is much cheaper than the commercially available preparations and which closely approximates the composition of Lake Tang water (which contains very little chloride).

The following products are purchased form either a supermarket or hardware store:

Sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) - baking soda

Potassium chloride (KCl) - (a salt substitute)

Magnesium sulphate (MgSO4) - Epsom salts

calcium chloride (CaCl2) - (a pool water hardener)

Assuming a level teaspoon is about 5g mix:

3 teaspoons NaHCO3

1 teaspoon KCl

3 teaspoons MgSO4

1 teaspoon CaCl2

Ths will treat around 50 litres of water and will give total hardness of around 350ppm, calcium hardness of around 150ppm and a pH of around 8.5.


Posted by Brian
Rift Lake salts & buffers

I have just tried the lake tang water recipe on the faq page and am having trouble dissolving this when it is mixed together should all the parts be added separately or am I doing something wrong all the components dissolve readily on there own but when mixed goes hard and has trouble dissolving completely thanks in advance for any help
Brian

Posted by Bill
Rift Lake salts & buffers

I would dissolve each ingredient separately and then add them together...like the commercial stuff that is available, the salt mixture is very hydroscopic and once it comes in contact with water tends to form reinforced concrete

---

Metal Halides

Index

Posted by Baz
Metal Halides

I'm looking at getting a metal halide light for my new tank and I need some advice please. The tank is 3x2x3 (yep square!) and will be housing mostly Malawi's and no plants. BUT... later on down the track the plan is to turn it into a Marine tank. Could someone recommend what size light I will need? They come in 150, 250 and 400 watts. I obviously want something big enough to do the coral and stuff later on, but at the same time I don't want the entire room to glow from this one tank.
I was also wondering... Are they energy efficient (compared to flouros)?
Do they create a lot of heat? Will I need ventilation in my hood?

Any help is appreciated.

Posted by Venomous
Metal Halides

I would suggest you get the 150 or the 250 but 150 should be sufficient. You will need Ventilation for your hood as they get quite hot. Hot enough that if water were to splash on them they may just blow up but then I've never really heard of anyone's blow up yet. I was planing on setting up a marine tank so let me know how it goes I'd really like to start one so if it goes all good for you then i will set one up. Live rock seems to cost allot But you can buy it in bulk it's about $200 for 25kilos. As with cost efficiency than i think for a 400watt it was about $12 a month but then I'm not so sure..

Well Metal Halides are best bought at Hydroponic stores or at light warehouses they are so much more cheaper than the aquarium. Aquariums sell 150 watt with ballast for $500 approx and hydroponic stores sell 400 watts for $150 with ballast

Posted by Dan
Metal Halides - Bulb Life

How long do halide bulbs last for on average?

Posted by Venomous
Metal Halides - Bulb Life

Generally IT is recommended that you change your bulbs once a year. Although you might want to change it earlier so as to reduce the shock. But that's only someone's personal preference. They will last longer just that to keep Coral you should keep the intensity constant so it's better to change it.

---

Mixing American and African Cichlids

Index

Posted by Dobermann
Mixing cichlids from American & Africa

I have my convicts and firemouth in with some ps. zebra and elongatus At first the African cichlids dominated but now as the fish mature the centrals are taking over The Firemouth dominated the ps. elongatus, and the ps. zebra and constantly harasses the ps. zebra and the convict pair dominated the ps. elongatus but are being constantly harassed by the ps. zebra.Can this mixture work I have them in a 100 gal with some other cics. Have any of you kept similar mixtures with success?

Posted by YeW
Mixing cichlids from American & Africa

Hi DoberMn,

As far as I am concerned, not in the long term. Here are my reasons:

Mature African cichlids particularly mbuna are much more aggressive than American cichlids

Malawi cichlids require a higher pH, kH and gH than American cichlids

Malawi mbuna also require large amounts of vegetable matter in their diet, while firemouths and convicts require higher protein diets.

The behavioural signals for defeat are different between American and African cichlids - this leads to increased fighting.

YeW

---

Mixing Plants and Cichlids

Index

Posted by Manitee
Plants & Cichlids

Will african cichlids ruin plants, like bite them up or pull them out. i dont know what kind of Africans i have but i do have a jack dempsey and a jewel and some others that are pike looking.

Posted by YeW
Plants & Cichlids

Hi,

It is mainly Malawi mbuna that really destroy plants (Pseudotropheus, Melanochromis etc) The Aulonocara are much better, not great but better on plants in general. Plants in general don't like hard alkaline water either... If your keen to mix plants with your Africans Neolamprologus and Julidochromis are generally good choices with plants. As for plants I would only use a few types: Indonesian fern, sometimes called java fern or rock fern. java moss or spawning moss and Anubias species.

Hope this helps

YeW

---

Painting/Backing for tanks

Index

Posted by Ben
Painting/backing tanks

I was wondering what is the best way to go about painting the back of a tank. i have a 6x2x2 which i cant get a back ground big enough for but all my other tanks have them but they just get wet and look ?!#@. What colour blue or black? Any way is spray paint the answer or what is best? Thanks

Ben

Posted by HP
Painting/backing tanks

you can get self adhesive colour backings from sign shops. All you need to to is spray on the adhesive side with soapy water, put it on the tank and smooth it out with a sponge. The backings are 2ft wide and can be cut to any length. I did my 6x2x2 for $20.

Posted by Baz
Painting/backing tanks

I've done mine in black paint. I think that looks more natural than blue paint. Use any general purpose paint, and just use a brush. There's no need for a spray can as you will only ever see the paint through the glass. So if the surface of the paint has runs and brush marks, who cares right? The side you look at will always be nice and smooth.

---

Shipping and Transporting fish

Index

Posted by TIM
Moving fish

to all can anybody tell me how to ship fish by mail? or keep them alive on very long car rides thanks Tim

Posted by CID
Moving fish

Shipping depends on size of fish and bag - water ph don't over pack high ph fish - have you purged by not feeding for 48Hrs - use oxygen if possible - use Prime or binding agent for ammonia build up - do they come from a reef filtered tank (high oxygen level, more susceptible to oxygen deprivation) - rule of shipping fish in bags 1/4-1/3 water and the rest air or oxygen - if transporting by car same deal with size & numbers take water to do changes with every 4-5 hrs - large fish are harder to move - in a bag packed & gassed properly in styro box 24 hrs is not overly excessive but the less time the better

Posted by Bill
Moving fish

Tim

Wondering how LONG a car ride that you do mean. Fish have successfully travelled from Sydney to Melbourne with me. I ask the shop to put oxygen into the bags and pack the bags into a polystyrene box which I then seal and cover with a blanket. The fish successfully travel at least 12 hours with me. They would probably last longer in this as the introduction of oxygen and packing in polystyrene seems to be the method used to send fish from Germany to Australia - well in excess of 24 hours

---

Water changes straight from the tap?

Index

Posted by Ash
Water changes straight from tap

I'm thinking of doing my water changes through a long hose, siphoning straight from the tank outside, and refilling from the tap through the hose straight to the tank. I'd mix water treatment chemicals and buffer salts in a bucket and add periodically during the refill.

Would this approach be safe? Does anyone else do this? If I can, I'd love to eliminate the buckets from my water changes ;).

Posted by Anita
Water changes straight from tap

Hi Ash,
I am semi paranoid about my water. We have a 200lt drum out the back and we put the hose into that but also put it through a dual filter first. The water can sit there until we need it (we don't aerate the water, hence I say 'semi paranoid') or we use it straight from the drum. We also have a feral frog living in the drum so I reckon he will eat any bugs that decide to live there LOL. We have a powerhead in the drum connected to a hose for refilling purposes so as we are emptying the drum it is getting refilled. This is really handy when we change the big tanks.

I know some people fill straight from the tap and they do have trouble occasionally. I used to do this years ago but would rather be safe than sorry. Isn't there a water filter that can be connected directly to the hose - like an extra joiner. I'm sure someone in Qld was using this method.
Hope this helps a bit,
Anita.

Posted by Alex
Water changes straight from tap

I use the hose method on occasion, when I feel it's time for a big change (which is probably small by some people's measure-15-20%) on a big Tanganyikan tank, but I let the hose refill the tank VERY slowly. I add dechlorinator and buffer salt as you said, from a bucket containing warm water to counterbalance the cold from the hose. It works for me but I do it rarely, preferring the ol' bucket most of the time.

Posted by Cich_o
Water changes straight from tap

Yeah I'm a lazy changer too.
I trickle the water in directly from the tap, and add dechlorinator at intervals. I'm lucky the water here is good. It must be ok, as I maybe lose 1 fish a year if I'm unlucky, and they are constantly spawning. The speed of the fill is dependant on the time I have. If I'm home all day, I'll do it over several hours in my 180 gal, but if I'm in a hurry, I'll do it quicker.

Andy

Posted by Thomas
Water changes straight from tap

I use a dual hose, one for siphoning and the other for filling. The filling hose is connected to a dual filter system (fine mesh filter plus active carbon, the one fitted underneath the kitchen sink). I've been doing this for 3 years+ already with no ill-effect. So far the only chemical I add to the tank after water change is Seachem acid-buffer (as I keep South American). I keep discus and they cope with this well, so my guess are other fish should be able to cope as well.

Thomas.

---

Which fish are good fish to breed?

Index

Posted by Deanman
What to breed?

I am having a lot of fun breeding my Malawi cichlids. I have at the moment a 4 foot and a 2 foot tank full of babies, but most of them are Blue Zebra babies, which the pet shops don't want. I have lots of electric blues and yellows, and some jacobfriebergs, which I don't think I'll have much problems trading them for food at the LFS, but I might have to shop around to pass off the Zebras. Any way, now for my question : I really like the fun of watching all my fish breed, but there's no point in breeding what I can't do anything with. So...... can you all give my some tips on some fish I could try which aren't too hard to breed, and if they are 'peaceful' (for a cichlid)? Thanks in advance..... Dean

Posted by Ray
What to breed?

My personal belief is that if you like the fish, breed it, or keep it, far too many people are interested in the quick buck, how many times have i gone into a shop to get some so called easy fish, only to be told havent seen them for a while, most of the tangs are pretty easy to sell, but a hell of a lot of Malawi's also are in demand, and thats basically it supply and demand, hang on to those zebs you never know one day they might be back in demand

Posted by Jordan
What to breed?

Hey Dean, If you a truly rewarding experience from your cichlid keeping, move on to Tanganyikans, I kept a tank full of mbuna and utaka for ages and all I got was bored. I now keep midsize lamprologous species and will soon move some cyprichromis in. The pair bond formed by these species makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside (kidding, but it is cool) and you will rarely run into aggression trouble if you play your cards right. Also, these fish aren't nearly as common as standard Malawians and you can sell them for a good price... ...forget Malawi Jordan

Posted by James
What to breed?

I'd have to completely disagree. Lamprologus species are hardly practical to breed for resale in a community style environment. Also 90% of the Tanganyikans actually worth breeding for resale potential are on the allowable import list anyway. My suggestion to you is pick a couple of types of fish that YOU like and stick with them. Too many people these days breed fish to chase a dollar. A good case in point is hajomaylandi's. They were as common as dirt once upon a time as as per usual everyone decided they were too common to keep and got rid of them. Three years later and Hajomaylandi were all but extinct in this country. Guess who made the money? That's right the guy that hung on to his common old Hajo's.... At the moment it sounds like your doing everything just right. So keep doing it!

Posted by Graham
What to breed?

As you can see everyone here thinks that what they keep is the way to go be they Malawi - tang - Americas - there are rare ones in all these types if your after the money (personally i keep them all not just one group - its interesting to see the different behaviour and breeding etc) but hay just get what you like but look hard dont just buy the first thing you see that's colourful do some research !! learn about the fish - its worth it ease/difficulty of breeding conditions there supply and demand etc etc ppl who say don't buy common fish are just plain kidding themselves eg. electric yellows v's rare sand dweller tangs - probably more e yellows sold in this country than any other cichlid - but there is a good demand for them so if your after money you can turn over a good 150 - 200 fry a month with a colony of say 10 fish out lay 200ish bucks and depending on the size you sell em you should get at least $2 each - get yourself a rare rare sand sifter that are much harder to keep and breed - many ppl find 2 years down the track they only managed to get them to bred once or twice and half there original stock died - sure they got $20 each for there 10 fry and remember there original outlay may be as high as $70 - $150 a fish you do the math yourself having said all that - its not about the $$$$$ pick stuff you like BUT with a little though and research you can get something that still gets you a good price that's my 2 cents worth

---

Breeding triggers

Index

Posted by Alex
Breeding Triggers Posted 6-5-2001

I think I read here that doing a water change with slightly cool water and not immediately buffering the water can trigger spawning-I'd like to thank whoever it was that posted the advice. I did it the other week and all of a sudden I've got more calvus, lepto and T. brichardi fry than I know what to do with! The whole tank spawned (almost)...

---

Inbreeding cichlids

Index

Posted by Craig
Inbreeding

I just want to know if it's not a good idea to breed siblings. i never even thought about it until i found a frontosa site that told me mixed bloods look better and fetch more$. do we have to worry about this stuff?

Posted by Anita
Inbreeding

Some people don't worry about this stuff and don't think it is important. I think it is critical. Find the type of fish you want, know what it is supposed to look like, then buy some fry, after seeing the adults if possible. When you buy a group of fry, chances are that they are siblings. Laws of nature tell us this is not a good gene pool for breeding. Of course, with the number of species being lost in Australia, this is not always feasible, however it should be done wherever possible. I suppose with species like Frontosa, this is more visibly important because of the bars but with other species, the signs are less immediately obvious eg less colour, thick lips begin to disappear (could be food), distinguishing marks spots etc are less visible. So yes, I think it is important. So many of the fish we have here may be the only ones we ever have of their type and we have to preserve that and not be flimsy in our approach. :)
I shall get down from my chair now - thanks for reading this.
Anita

Posted by Simon
Inbreeding

*climbs up on his chair*

When asking this kind of question I think you need to decide what to do based on what fish you are deciding to breed. If the fish is on the allowable imports list then IMO extra effort should be made to find unrelated individuals for breeding purposes - BUT - if the species is not on the allowable imports list then more attention should be given to selecting good parents irrespective of their heritage.
A phenomenon that occurs in naturally isolated populations of animals is called the founder effect. When a very small number of individuals ( as small as one male and one female ) somehow become isolated in a new environment where they are able to breed without competition, they are able to overcome any affects of inbreeding ( called inbreeding depression ) by producing large numbers of offspring which are allowed to mate randomly to also produce a large number of progeny. The theory being that there are a massive number of genes present in the parents and these genes separate randomly during sperm and egg formation ( for example a human male and female can produce over 800,000 genetically different combinations of their genes during formation of sperm and eggs - when fertilisation occurs the combined probability that any one individual will be genetically identical is more than 1 in 1.5 million ! ), so that a huge number of genetically dissimilar individuals representing nearly every possible combination of genes in the original founders can be produced from a single pair of individuals. Thus, variability may be lost to a certain extent to start with but as time goes on variability can again be re-established to over come the bottle neck effect that can happen ( a loss of variability ). In nature it is survival of the fittest ( aka natural selection ) that determines who lives and who dies and who gets lucky thus ensuring that serious malformations and other deleterious recessive genes are selected against and therefore removed from the gene pool.
I feel this has implications to the way we breed our fish - especially those that are no longer on the allowable import list. As large a number of these fish should be breed and allowed to mate randomly ( logistically difficult but not impossible ) and so on - people complain that the red in firemouths might as well be called pink now - well that, I am certain, is due to the fact that people don't spend enough time breeding a particular line of fish until quality is what it should be ( because you CAN improve quality even when starting with visually average fish ). To give you an example - I have been breeding a particular line of convicts for about 3 years now - and am up to 5 generations - the initial parents were good - but my final female is far and away superior to the initial female in terms of clarity of the bars, parenting ability and over conformation.
Anyway, I'll get down off my chair now and would hope that people considering breeding their fish would take a little more time to try and understand simple genetics concept

---

Line bred Aulonocara (Eureka, Red Rubin, Turkis)

Index

Posted by Tim
Line bred Aulonocara

...i picked up some Red Rubins from Campbelltown today and was a big impulse buy, got 1 male and 4 females , the male was extremely well coloured at about 2" , and all 4 females had mouthfuls, when i got home some had spat in the bag so i ended up with an extra 32 fry and 1 female still has her eggs, anyway just some questions on them like what actually species are they?? I'm told they are an aquarium bred strain but what species was it line bred from??

also a note , thanks to Angus at Campbelltown, he was very helpful and even through in some live Brine shrimp, and i can certainly recomend for the African nut's it's worth having a look out there, and dont say it's to far cause i went there from the Blue Mtns

Tim

Posted by CID
Line bred Aulonocara

He's right about them being a line bred colour form just like Eureka and Turkis are but not a hybrid like OB form. They originated in Germany from A.baenschi "Chipoka Orange".
Chris D

(Editors note: Line bred forms differ from hybrids in that they are selective bred "lines" of fish from the same species as opposed to hybridising different species (eg: Hemichromis sp. 'Neon' or Red Blood Parrots). A. jacobfreibergi 'Eureka' is derived from the Otter Point morph of A. jacobfreibergi while A. baenschi 'Rubins Red' is dervied from A.baenschi "Chipoka Orange")

---

What are the effects of inbreeding?

Index

Posted by Fleshbait
Inbreeding

What are the effects of inbreeding ?

Tony

Posted by MagicaDiSpell
Inbreeding

There is a short answer and a long one.

1. The short answer: Increased chance of malformations and restriction of the gene pool.

2. The long answer: Fish (like most higher forms of life) have two copies of each chromosome (you might look at it as the book of life). There are always typos in every book, having two copies makes sure that the end result comes out more or less perfect. During the formation of egg and sperm cells a single copy of each chromosome is distributed into the individual cells (it is of course a little more complicated than this). The egg from one individual and the sperm from another individual are then combined in the zygote, which develops into the embryo. The more closely related the mating individuals are the greater the chance that they will inherit chromosomes with the same typos in them, which may (or may not) result in deformities. If you introduce new unrelated individuals into your colonies you also introduce a greater variety of copies, which will help keep undesirable characteristics at a minimum.


Posted by Dawson
Inbreeding

What about desirable characteristics? Can they not increase with a certain amount of inbreeding?

Isn't it because of inbreeding that we have so many different locality varieties of fish like P. Zebra and Aulonocara?

---

Australian Catfish?

Index

Posted by Venomous
Australian Catfish?

Hey Ppl

Just wondering Do we have an Australian catfish??
If so any one got info and where abouts ??

Posted by ducksta
Australian Catfish?

Salmon tail and tandanus catfishes are aussie natives! And they're so much cooler than them damn stupid foreign catfish... Make sure you don't get the salmon tail confused with the one Americans call a Salmon tail. Check out the Bigfish forum for the sci. name. Its in a topic called Salmon Cats if I remember right...

Posted by matti
Australian Catfish?

Hi Venomous,

Yes we most certainly do have catfish and probably the two most common would be the good old eel tailed cat (Tandanus tandanus) and the Salmon catfish (Aruis graeffei). There is quite a long post on salmon cats in the big fish forum but if you go advanced search on Yahoo for Ariidae, 300 sites will come up with info relating to salmon cats and their relatives.

The two catfish grow large and like alkaline waters with some salt added, as they are found in estuaries. Berney's catfish which is a relative of the salmon gets to about 38cm which is one of the smallest available, so large aquaria for all is needed.

Hope this helps,

Matti

Posted by Tim